Hi Rhonda, loving all the content you’re putting out there its amazing.
I know this is an old post but I’ve been listening to the ATP science podcast for a while now, I’ve tried to look at studies but I can’t really decipher the information myself. What are your thoughts on the following statement from their website regarding this?
“The article also confirms what we have been saying here at ATP forever is that using things like black pepper to enhance the absorption of curcuminoids to bypass the above-mentioned targets to improve bioavailability actually stops it from working. Adding Black pepper actually counteracts one of its major detoxification functions in the liver and gut. Glucuronidation is induced by NRF2 gene activation by turmeric to help detoxify things like xeno estrogens, estrogen and other pollutants, plastics etc. but black pepper blocks it so turmeric can sneak past the digestive system, mucosa and liver.”
Does it make a difference if you take a separate supplement for curcumin and piperine? I’m seeing a lot of combination supplements out there. Also, is there a specific brand you recommend? I try to be cautious of fillers and additives that I don’t want to take in. Thank you!
There’s thousands of supplements out there. Of course, they all claim to be the most effective. Can you recommend a couple brands that are at least reputable?
Hey Dr. Patrick,
Can you please update us on your current thoughts regarding turmeric/curcumin? I’ve heard you recommend on JRE both turmeric/BioPerine and curcumin/meriva on separate occasions. Have you reached a conclusion as to which is better, or are they not mutually exclusive? This whole topic has confused me and I’d like to know your thoughts as of Summer 2016
Wondering if there is any truth to the concept of the “Biomor” brand of curcumin/turmeric extract. Essentially claims to have a 673% greater bioavailability than that of curcumin/turmeric extract combined with piperine.
I do a bit of MMA and have no noticeable deficits. Occasionally, I take some earth-shattering hits.
Understanding, that this is not medical advice, what could a person-who takes a really hard hit (one or two slip through) maybe once a month and isn’t on any medications-do?
How many milligrams of Tumeric w/piperin would a diligent reader of pub-med and other refereed literature take?
In some of the mouse studies for traumatic brain injury, mice were given 300 mg per kg of body weight following a traumatic event and this significantly reduced damage. This was given orally without piperine and is an astronomical amount (24 grams!) if translated to a 180 lb. male. )http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2911034/) Theoretically, the piperine should make the curcuminoids 15-20-fold more bioavailable. 1g per day is what I take prophylactically, but if I were to have brain trauma I would probably up it to 5 grams after trauma.
5mg of piperine is enough to slow the metabolism of the curcuminoids in the bloodstream. Also, 3 grams of DHA per day for 30 days has been shown to reduce severity of brain trauma (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21135750). The human brain (in a non-injured state) only takes up 4 mg/day of DHA and takes up much more EPA. From my research, it is important to have 2 grams of EPA and 1 gram of DHA per day. I’m doing a video on this really soon. In the case where TBI has occurred, brain can take up more DHA.
I must say I am also confused on this. If I understand correctly, there are supplements with piperine, and also liposomal formulations which include Meriva and Longvida. Over on truttmd.com he recommends the latter, adducing studies that show it crosses the blood-brain barrier whereas he claims Meriva is far less effective. So what is the science now saying on the best way to take curcumin and on the dosages to obtain anti-cancer and neuroprotective effect?
The problem that I can see with longvida and meriva is that there are curcumin with phospholipids, so it do not contain aromatic tumerone, the other curcumoid in turmeric. Curcumin and tumerone have some overlapping functions, in that they both can inhibit inflammation (via decreaseing NFkappa B). However, they also have separate functions, tumerone has a specific effect increasing the neural stem cell population in the subventricular zone of the brain, curcumin does not have this effect. For this reason, I think taking turmeric with piperine is ideal (despite the fact that the curcumin concentration is not that high in turmeric). All curcumoids are able to cross the BBB, without needing liposomes. That is not to say that liposomal formulation of curcumin and turmerone would not be awesome, but it does not exist yet. In addition, there are many different curcumoids in turmeric and we have known about the positive anti-inflammatory effects of curcumin for some time but are just starting to uncover protective mechanisms of other curcumoids in turmeric (such as tumerone). There may still be others that we have not revealed yet.
I see, thank you. Perhaps I should roll with both for a bit. You are suggesting a turmeric supplement with piperine rather than simply the root (e.g. juiced) together with a piperine supplement, is that correct? Or would the latter perhaps be just as good?
In general, it would be awesome to have a site which brings together in a synthetic form all the latest info on supplements, both for general health and particular conditions, and even reviews or recommendations of particular products from a medically qualified (and of course independent) perspective. I’m down with a regular donation to keep it going :)
First off, just want to mention that is is not medical advice and that you should always consult your physician. But yes, I think the latter would be just as good. Remember that piperine increases the half-life of all xenobiotics (ie. pharma drugs, other polyphenols, EGCGs). For that reason, one should not take piperine with other drugs because it may also keep in in the system longer than has been tested.
Your suggestion is a good idea. It would take me some time as I try to be comprehensive. I’ll start with the stuff that I take and work from there…
Sure, we’re all biohacking adults here… ;) I mention what I do to my physicians, they have no interest whatsoever of course. I am not sure mainstream medicine completely gets the trade-off that individuals face in trying some of this stuff out (and surely many people do much more stupid things when they can’t get proper holistic care for their conditions). I am also going to see if I can do anything with the oleoresin which seems promising as it concentrates both the curcuminoids and the sesquiterpenes. Will certainly be careful, start with conservative amounts. My philosophy is to go with high doses for a limited period like a week, then a maintenance amount for say three while monitoring insofar as possible the inflammatory biomarkers. This seems way more sensible than maintaining an intermediate dose for months or years, which according to this paper could be associated with toxicity:
Makes sense to me: doing weird and untested things to your body for prolonged periods isn’t likely to be a good idea unless you really have no alternative. You gotta treat it with love, not have it in a constant state of wondering WTF you are doing to it. Interactions should definitely be a concern too, but I’m not on any prescription medicines. I’m not sure why prolonging the half-life of polyphenols might be a bad thing, but will be careful there also. Will report back if I find anything interesting.
Thanks for looking to reach out! I try to reply to every single email I get (really!), but sometimes it takes a little while or some messages just fall through the cracks, usually by accident.
I give a special increased priority to my supporters who message me through Patreon, so please consider making use of their messaging system by pledging a small amount to support my website.
Hi Rhonda, loving all the content you’re putting out there its amazing.
I know this is an old post but I’ve been listening to the ATP science podcast for a while now, I’ve tried to look at studies but I can’t really decipher the information myself. What are your thoughts on the following statement from their website regarding this?
“The article also confirms what we have been saying here at ATP forever is that using things like black pepper to enhance the absorption of curcuminoids to bypass the above-mentioned targets to improve bioavailability actually stops it from working. Adding Black pepper actually counteracts one of its major detoxification functions in the liver and gut. Glucuronidation is induced by NRF2 gene activation by turmeric to help detoxify things like xeno estrogens, estrogen and other pollutants, plastics etc. but black pepper blocks it so turmeric can sneak past the digestive system, mucosa and liver.”
Hi Dr. Rhonda,
Does it make a difference if you take a separate supplement for curcumin and piperine? I’m seeing a lot of combination supplements out there. Also, is there a specific brand you recommend? I try to be cautious of fillers and additives that I don’t want to take in. Thank you!
-Cristina
Dr. Patrick
There’s thousands of supplements out there. Of course, they all claim to be the most effective. Can you recommend a couple brands that are at least reputable?
Speaking for curcumin of course
Hey Dr. Patrick, Can you please update us on your current thoughts regarding turmeric/curcumin? I’ve heard you recommend on JRE both turmeric/BioPerine and curcumin/meriva on separate occasions. Have you reached a conclusion as to which is better, or are they not mutually exclusive? This whole topic has confused me and I’d like to know your thoughts as of Summer 2016
Wondering if there is any truth to the concept of the “Biomor” brand of curcumin/turmeric extract. Essentially claims to have a 673% greater bioavailability than that of curcumin/turmeric extract combined with piperine.
I do a bit of MMA and have no noticeable deficits. Occasionally, I take some earth-shattering hits. Understanding, that this is not medical advice, what could a person-who takes a really hard hit (one or two slip through) maybe once a month and isn’t on any medications-do? How many milligrams of Tumeric w/piperin would a diligent reader of pub-med and other refereed literature take?
In some of the mouse studies for traumatic brain injury, mice were given 300 mg per kg of body weight following a traumatic event and this significantly reduced damage. This was given orally without piperine and is an astronomical amount (24 grams!) if translated to a 180 lb. male. )http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2911034/) Theoretically, the piperine should make the curcuminoids 15-20-fold more bioavailable. 1g per day is what I take prophylactically, but if I were to have brain trauma I would probably up it to 5 grams after trauma. 5mg of piperine is enough to slow the metabolism of the curcuminoids in the bloodstream. Also, 3 grams of DHA per day for 30 days has been shown to reduce severity of brain trauma (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21135750). The human brain (in a non-injured state) only takes up 4 mg/day of DHA and takes up much more EPA. From my research, it is important to have 2 grams of EPA and 1 gram of DHA per day. I’m doing a video on this really soon. In the case where TBI has occurred, brain can take up more DHA.
I must say I am also confused on this. If I understand correctly, there are supplements with piperine, and also liposomal formulations which include Meriva and Longvida. Over on truttmd.com he recommends the latter, adducing studies that show it crosses the blood-brain barrier whereas he claims Meriva is far less effective. So what is the science now saying on the best way to take curcumin and on the dosages to obtain anti-cancer and neuroprotective effect?
The problem that I can see with longvida and meriva is that there are curcumin with phospholipids, so it do not contain aromatic tumerone, the other curcumoid in turmeric. Curcumin and tumerone have some overlapping functions, in that they both can inhibit inflammation (via decreaseing NFkappa B). However, they also have separate functions, tumerone has a specific effect increasing the neural stem cell population in the subventricular zone of the brain, curcumin does not have this effect. For this reason, I think taking turmeric with piperine is ideal (despite the fact that the curcumin concentration is not that high in turmeric). All curcumoids are able to cross the BBB, without needing liposomes. That is not to say that liposomal formulation of curcumin and turmerone would not be awesome, but it does not exist yet. In addition, there are many different curcumoids in turmeric and we have known about the positive anti-inflammatory effects of curcumin for some time but are just starting to uncover protective mechanisms of other curcumoids in turmeric (such as tumerone). There may still be others that we have not revealed yet.
I see, thank you. Perhaps I should roll with both for a bit. You are suggesting a turmeric supplement with piperine rather than simply the root (e.g. juiced) together with a piperine supplement, is that correct? Or would the latter perhaps be just as good?
In general, it would be awesome to have a site which brings together in a synthetic form all the latest info on supplements, both for general health and particular conditions, and even reviews or recommendations of particular products from a medically qualified (and of course independent) perspective. I’m down with a regular donation to keep it going :)
First off, just want to mention that is is not medical advice and that you should always consult your physician. But yes, I think the latter would be just as good. Remember that piperine increases the half-life of all xenobiotics (ie. pharma drugs, other polyphenols, EGCGs). For that reason, one should not take piperine with other drugs because it may also keep in in the system longer than has been tested. Your suggestion is a good idea. It would take me some time as I try to be comprehensive. I’ll start with the stuff that I take and work from there…
Sure, we’re all biohacking adults here… ;) I mention what I do to my physicians, they have no interest whatsoever of course. I am not sure mainstream medicine completely gets the trade-off that individuals face in trying some of this stuff out (and surely many people do much more stupid things when they can’t get proper holistic care for their conditions). I am also going to see if I can do anything with the oleoresin which seems promising as it concentrates both the curcuminoids and the sesquiterpenes. Will certainly be careful, start with conservative amounts. My philosophy is to go with high doses for a limited period like a week, then a maintenance amount for say three while monitoring insofar as possible the inflammatory biomarkers. This seems way more sensible than maintaining an intermediate dose for months or years, which according to this paper could be associated with toxicity:
http://personal.us.es/mlopezlazaro/2010.%20Int%20J%20Cancer.%20The%20dark%20side%20of%20curcumin.pdf
Makes sense to me: doing weird and untested things to your body for prolonged periods isn’t likely to be a good idea unless you really have no alternative. You gotta treat it with love, not have it in a constant state of wondering WTF you are doing to it. Interactions should definitely be a concern too, but I’m not on any prescription medicines. I’m not sure why prolonging the half-life of polyphenols might be a bad thing, but will be careful there also. Will report back if I find anything interesting.
@nebiros This is awesome, thanks!
Fairly old study, should look at the newer human studies done on Longvida and Theracumin